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through Messrs. Chien, Mr. Brown would receive them. To this Mr. Brown replied by advising Mr. Chen to inform his Excellency Ting by wire of what had transpired at this interview, and to then wait for his Excellency Ting's reply.
Inclosure 4 in No. 1.
MEMORANDUM of an Interview between Ch'eu Chu Lun, Ch'en Clih Fen, and Dr. Gatrell, held at the Fo Chao Lou on the forenoon of the 28th December.
MR. CH'EN CHU LUN explained that at the interview with Mr. Brown yesterday it was impossible to go into details, and he then brought forward the fact of the original Agreement having been signed by Luzzatti, who was an Italian merchant, as being one of the chief reasons why the people of Shansi opposed the Peking Syndicate. To this Dr. Gatrell replied, saying, "Surely it is permitted for any Company or firm to change its representative, and that the Agreement was not drawn up as between the Shansi Bureau of Trade and Signor Luzzatti, but as between the Shansi Bureau of Trade and the Peking Syndicate." Mr. Ch'en replied, "Then the Shansi Bureau of Trade surely has the power to set aside people they had invited to manage certain of their business." To this Dr. Gatrell replied, "An Agreement properly signed and sealed could not be set aside without a proper understanding," and it was pointed out that the Shansi Agreement stipulated a definite time--namely, sixty years. then told of how serious the situation in Shansi was with the people, merchants, and Mr. Ch'en students, all determined to prevent the Syndicate opening mines in Shansi, and the officials in full knowledge of the fact that, should the permit to mine be granted, there would be a revolution in Shansi. To this Dr. Gatrell replied, "The Shansi officials and people had an erroneous idea of the purposes of the Syndicate and of the great benefits the Syndicate opening mines would confer upon both Government and people." Mr. Ch ́en said, "All over China the students--young patriotic men-were determined to protect the interests of their native country." students were at the bottom of the troubles in Shansi. Messrs. Ch'en both admitted Dr. Gatrell then remarked that the that this was so, and added that, "even in the capital and Palace there were students bigh up in Government favour, and that they were all upon the side of the agitators in Shansi." "No official," they said, "could possibly remain in Shansi should the permit be granted, and should the British Government force the issue of the permit, then the provincial officials would have to commit suicide, and there are no officials in China who would be willing to go to take their places." To this Dr. Gatrell replied that if the reasonable terms of the Syndicate's Agreement were made known, in all probability the Syndicate's bitterest enemies might turn round and become its best friends. A the Agent-General's statement, setting forth the Peking Syndicate's case and its aims, copy of was then handed to Messrs. Chen, who both read it through. After having done so, they both expressed themselves as pleased with it, but Mr. Chen Chu Lun pointed out that there was one statement which would arouse the angry feelings of the students. When asked which statement it was, he pointed to the one referring to the Peking Syndicate opening a school for mines where students might study this most important subject without going away from their homes, where they were liable to acquire modes of thought which are antagonistic to the Government, &c. Mr. Ch'en also said that if the Shansi students or the editors of native papers got hold of copies of the Agent- General's statement they would most surely refute it. proceeding would only serve to make the Syndicate's case more clear and bring to the Dr. Gatrell replied that such a knowledge of the reading public the great benefits which would accrue from the Syndi- cate's operations. Mr. Ch'en then asked whether it was likely that a compromise might be effected. Dr. Gatrell replied that the Agent-General had stated clearly his views yesterday, and Mr. Ch'en was asked whether he had forwarded to his Excellency Ting a report of the interview of yesterday. Mr. Chen said he had not done so, "as unless he could say that the Syndicate would not enforce the issue of the permit it was useless to ask for a reasonable proposal.” "His Excellency Ting," he said, "would have full powers to act, and would have very reasonable proposals to make, would the Syndicate say that they will not demand the permit and open mines. firm upon this point there is nothing his Excellency Ting nor any one else can do--the If the Syndicate remains whole province will rise and anarchy prevail." Mr. Chen also said, "If the matter is finally delivered over into the hands of the British and Chinese Governments for settle- ment, he believed that it would be a matter for international arbitration." then pointed to the 15th Article of the Agreement, which states that "Chinese may Mr. Ch'en
purchase shares, &c., and that in the event of Chinese getting possession of three- fourths of all the shares of any one mine, that mine may then be redeemed," &c. Dr. Gatrell replied that this Article could not be referred to at present, seeing that no permit had been granted and no mines were in operation. Mr. Ch'en then said, Presumably the Syndicate is seeking for profit, and that this profit will be as acceptable in one form as another. Why, then, could not a compromise be brought about? Shansi was not the only province wherein mines might be operated." To this Dr. Gatrell replied that the Agent-General had made his views clear at the interview of yesterday, and Mr. Ch'en was advised to send the report of the said interview without delay.
Mr. Chen asked whether Mr. Brown knew that all the foreigners in Taiyuan-fu had telegraphed to the British Minister urging him not to press for the issue of the permit, as Shansi was against it. Dr. Gatrell replied that he had not heard of such a telegram.
Inclosure 5 in No. 1.
MEMORANDUM of an Interview between Messrs. Ch'en Chu Lun, Ch'en Chi Fen, and Dr. Gatrell, at the latter's residence, 31st December, 1906.
CHEN CHU LUN stated that he had heard from his Excellency Ting to the effect that, provided the Agent-General of the Peking Syndicate would state that he was prepared to waive the actual opening of mines in Shansi, it would be easy to settle upon a method of procedure. But that, without such assurance, he (Ting) could do nothing; that if the Syndicate persisted in its claim to carry out the terms of the Shansi Agreement, which Agreement was made with an Italian named Luzzatti by the Bureau of Trade, who now do not require foreign assistance, but who are willing to pay compensation in respect of the cancelling of the Agreement, the Governor, Ting, and other officials can do nothing but relinquish their posts and leave the Province of Shansi to inevitable anarchy.
Mr. Ch'en also stated that if Mr. Brown was inclined to regard the status of himself and Mr. Ch'en Chih Fen as insufficient, he would produce satisfactory guarantors, and Mr. Brown, on his part, might obtain the good offices of the British Consul as his guarantor. Mr. Ch'en asked whether Dr. Gatrell considered it at all likely that Mr. Brown would agree to not open mines in Shansi, and when Dr. Gatrell said that he thought not, Messrs. Chen both said that if they heard this definitely from the Agent- General there was nothing for them to do but return to Shansi.
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